A Dopamine Kick (Another ADHD Podcast)

53. Starting on ADHD Medication Concerta. (Concerta vs Elvanse/Vyvanse)

December 04, 2022
A Dopamine Kick (Another ADHD Podcast)
53. Starting on ADHD Medication Concerta. (Concerta vs Elvanse/Vyvanse)
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Show Notes Transcript

This week were discussing the ADHD medication Concerta.
It's Shell's first week on Concerta so Sparky takes to the mic to question Shell on how she’s been feeling since starring on the medication, all positives, the negatives and what the overall experience has been like so far on Concerta.

We also touch upon the differences between Concerta and Elvanse/ Vyvanse, whilst making a very surprising discovery about one of the medications.

Thanks for listening to us ramble!
Episode resources

This website has loads of information on what to take to your GP should you be in the process of needing to see someone about ADHD

List of symptoms, diagnostic criteria for ADHD and further information:

If you identify with 5 symptoms on each list often, it may be something you want to speak to your doctor about.

See you next week for another episode of shenanigans!

We upload a new episode every Sunday evening.

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Welcome to a degree in Care, yet another ADHD podcast. With your host sparkling show. Join us each week and we can hyperfocus together on all things ADHD. This is our journey to diagnosis the challenges, frustrations and humor that come when living with ADHD as adults. Let the interacting begin. Hello everyone and welcome to episode 53 of Don't Make It Today. We are going to be talking about starting concert. Yes. Because Charlotte's started concerts are having your show and it's been a bit of a journey because obviously you started with the events. Yeah. Saying that on I am that happens here and now you're on Concerta. So we thought we'd do an episode that was kind of like similar to the events episode, but a bit different because you can't remember those questions and I don't know what I'm going to ask you in this episode, so I'm totally winging it. So yeah, we're going to talk about the medication because there's a lot of people that actually want to hear about it, because I know that when I was looking at medication, I was thinking to myself, what sort of happens? What sort of side effects do you get? Like, what does it make you feel like? Is it a one day drug? And we know everybody's different, but we thought these are the sort of questions that people are looking for. So one answer. So that's what we're going to do today. But if you haven't already. Please consider subscribing to the podcast. If you do like what you're listening to. Please, please, please. Leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. We'd love to hear from you. We love reading reviews, and it will absolutely make our day, I'm sure. It certainly will. Yeah, I know that shout would be screaming from the rooftops when any review comes through. Oh, my. God, we can't do reviews. So. You know, if you've got anything bad to say, just take suffer. I fragile to have RFD. So I'm pretty. Sure if you got a bad review we'd probably stop doing then stop doing the episodes. I mean, obviously say what you want if you don't if you don't really like the podcast and that's fine, but. We'd love to hear from you. Either way, let's get back to what we're talking. About, which is Concerta. When did you start it and how long have you been on Concerta? So ten days. But at ten days. Ten days. Yesterday, on a Sunday. And what dose you on? 80 milligrams once a day. So I take it at half six in the morning. And how long does it last night? Does it last a while? Yeah, it seems to last for me until about.

Probably about seven, 8:

00. So I do get the full 12 hours after that feels like.

And then after 8:

00, I'm just so tired. Like, it just. I just crash. The first five days, I was genuinely just going to bed

at 8:

00 and sleeping through until the morning, which I would never have done before. And the million dollar question, which I'm sure everyone listening wants to know, because we've seen you journey through L.A. when you started it made you feel and then you did the double in which you. Shouldn't have done. Because you didn't listen to the psychiatrist or you kind of did. I mean, it's not. He didn't say no. He didn't say. No. Say no. He kind of manipulated it to what you wanted it to be. I didn't know you did. And you were. Basically you did what you wanted to do anyway. Yes. And you didn't find that it was the best thing. It was it was better. The high dose was definitely better. And I would consider trying Alfonse again, but only at a high dose. But yeah, it's still I still I still wasn't. I was happy to try the concert out. Yeah, because I don't think maybe albums is just not for me. So that was the million dollar question then? Well, the answer really. Do you find that it's better an album? It's for you? Do you find that there's a distinctive difference? It's definitely different. So I'll start with a spoiler alert. I have not had my amazing epiphany where I like sobbing into my phone, recording a tik tok video going. Is this one? No, people feel. Like I really want that so bad that has not happened. Well, you know what that means. You've got more problems. And too many problems to fix. I'm joking. Tia So yet didn't did have that. But it definitely, definitely does something. But I have still had a lot of side effects again. So the last two episodes we did, I was on Concerta and today I actually haven't taken it and I think you can I definitely anyway myself can really hear a difference. I'm just a lot more subdued when I'm on air. I'm quieter like the spark isn't there. Like I can't keep up and conversations, quick conversations, superficial stuff is fine, but like, jokes and humor, I'm like half a second behind and I can't think of what to say. At least you've got some humor on it, because, I mean, you were laughing and joking in the last episodes that we did it. And you're on Concerta. Yeah, that's true for I think when you're on. I think it was a real struggle to get you to kind of. I don't know. I don't know. You just seem really like we've talked about this before, but you seem really subdued. Yeah. Like you said, you felt, society said, but almost like it kind of took away your personality as well. And I've heard a lot of people say that with ADHD medication, it can make you zombified and and basically take away your personality. So maybe it wasn't it wasn't the right medication for you. Yeah, well, it was listening to that podcast episode that we recorded when I heard it, that was the time when I was like, No, I need to not take this, because I knew that it was making me a bit sedated, but I didn't think that it was obvious. I thought that like, it just made me feel weird, but it wasn't obvious to anyone else. And then when I heard myself on the podcast heard that my voice sounded like the kind of things I was saying. I was just like, No, this is this is not me. I'd rather be I'd rather just be me with all my problems than this, like, dull zombie. That's done some heavy dose of it. Yeah. See. I think I mean, I saw you in person when you're on the fence. And to me, it didn't seem like there was a massive difference in your personality. You were still you. Yeah, but then obviously when we did with that episode, I think it was like a week after or something. Yeah, it was. But it just could be having a bad day. I mean, there's been times on this podcast where I can't talk, right? I'm just not in, you know, not really. So me on the first day, though, I didn't use that when I would have had the least amount in my system and it gradually builds up. Yeah. So that's another question that I wanted to ask because obviously you were the one taking all these medications. I unfortunately haven't been able to take anything because I can't even get get to the appointments. That assessment yet still ongoing, by the way, what do you think it does for you before we get into the side effects of Concerta? Because I'm sure you. Yeah. What do you think the benefits are and why do you feel it's changed? So I didn't think that it was doing that much for me. I, I thought that I wasn't having any particularly horrendous side effects. So it was tolerable and I could stay on. For a longer term to see whether or not it did get any positives. But I didn't think particularly it was having any positives for me. Or. Any big ones anyway. I definitely feel I felt better emotionally when I was on it, like less all over the place. But other than that, I didn't think it was particularly doing anything. And then today I didn't take it for a couple of reasons. I was helping out at different clinic and I didn't want to go somewhere new with people that I didn't really know very well and not be myself and not feel quite myself. And also I knew that we were going to recruit tonight, so I thought, I just won't take it today. It's not really doing anything anyway, so it's not going make a difference. But it definitely is making a difference now. It's seen. So I have I have not been late for work a single day when I was on Concerta and this morning I could not get my ass out of the house. I left the house so late and I was just messing around and just, like. Just been. ADHD. Just. Yeah, just like, not getting knowing that I was late, but still, like, doing other silly little things rather than just walking out the door. And that's when I realized I haven't I haven't been doing this on the Concerta. I've just been, like, getting ready to go to work and then going to work. Yeah. So, yeah, it definitely has affected me more than I realized. Yeah. So with The Concerta, yeah. Do you feel that when you take a thorough no asking a lot of questions? Because this is a question that I want to know myself. So that's why I keep pressing you. All right? I'm not telling you. You want to hear how did a magic one. The pill has miraculously fixed my body. So I don't feel any different. No. So if I was the point. So if you. If you like, froze two moments in time. One when I was on the tablets and one when I wasn't with Alfonse, especially at the peak, I would be able to tell which was which. With Concerta, I wouldn't I wouldn't set it the 80 milligrams that I'm taking. 18, 18. You said 80, 18. 88. I couldn't I couldn't tell you if I was on it or not because I can't feel it. I can't feel the difference. So it isn't feeling do. Yeah, it doesn't feel. But if you gave me like half an hour to do stuff like that, like a task to do. Yeah. I could tell you at the end which one was which. In what way. So it's definitely slows me down. Yeah. But not, not necessarily in a good way. So when I. If you see a concert at. The concert. Yeah. So when I hear the people saying about how ADHD medication slows things down. So to focus, that's not what concert it feels like for me, or at least at this dose, maybe it would a higher dose, but at this dose it feels more like being under water. So things are slower, but not easier. Yes, they're a bit more difficult, but I can't tell that like just sitting on the sofa, can't tell the difference between being on it, being off as I do when I'm trying to do tasks or trying to talk to someone. I realize, yeah, like I'm a bit slower, can't quite get my words out. Think of what I'm going to say next. You see, this is where I struggle because I think, well, if that's how it makes you feel, how is it going to make me feel if I ever took the slide that I can it? I'm slow right now, so I know I am. So am I going to be even more slow and I'm going to be a proper zombie on this trip? And I feel. Like I. Don't. Know. I mean, I'm on a log at the moment. That's what I'm thinking. I'm not going to. Be like, you know, do you know what I mean? You wouldn't know until you try because it affects I'm wondering at. This point, I don't think I'm ever going to get. It. Well, we'll get there eventually. You know, I mean. I'm literally tempted. To write back right now, I'm not a drug addict. I'm not looking at retry long. So now we've talked about some of the saw positives of anxiety because obviously you've said it does help you helps you get up in the morning or helps you at least the biggest positive. The reason that I kept taking it is because when I first realized that it was still making me a bit slow, my immediate reaction was, I'm not I don't want this. I'm not going to take this. I don't want my personality changed. But so I mentioned that I was have I mentioned the podcast? I've been seeing a psychologist as well know. So we touched upon it last week when I made a comment about it, but I don't think I've actually physically said, Oh, this is what I'm doing on my behalf, but. Who knows what if I've not mentioned it? I'm seeing a psychologist as well. I you said that then. Yes, I'm seeing a psychologist. And she asked me to make a diary of an empty diary, basically, of when I'm when I feel empty. So we can. Try and identify what the triggers are. Yeah. And I've tried so hard, I've been really motivated of like set loads of alarms and every single day I've looked at it and I've tried to fill it in and actually I've not been able to because I haven't felt empty. And normally I would feel empty it. Every day, like often more than once a day, I have periods of time where I just feel like completely and empty. Yeah. And you haven't. Found. And I haven't. And when I realized that when I really, really got to like, date for and I was like, I've still want to write in this diary. That's what I was thinking. Okay, that's my doing. Something. It is. Yeah. Well, that's actually a massive lie. It's definitely the worst my. Most massive accomplishment. Like, you. Know, you've done the Big Ten. Something like. But that's that's a massive thing. That's why I kept taking it because I was like, okay, well, I would like that long term. Yeah. So that positive alone. That's really good. That's a really good Yeah. To have even if it doesn't make you focus the fact you don't feel empty. Yeah. I would say is a massive to me anyway. Yeah that sounds like a massive plus. So I think that's a win win for Kazaa today. Obviously we don't speak too soon, so. I'm going to. Talk about who is going better. Yeah, definitely sounds like it's going a lot better than our events. I mean, yeah, on our events you were messaging me constantly saying to me, I don't like this, so this is the matchmaking or this, you know, like obviously this stuffy talk. I felt like, I, I, I, I knew I was on drugs. That makes no sense because obviously I swallowed the pill, so I always know I'm on drugs. But I felt like there was an effect. Yeah, I felt like I was on drugs when I was on antibiotics. And that feels uncontrollable. Yeah, I didn't like that. Like it felt really out of context. Like, you know, say if you're out with your friends and you're drinking and you feel drunk, like that's a nice place to be when you're out with your friends, but you want to feel drunk, like at work, say, because it's out of context. Yeah. The right place. Yeah. And that's what I felt like. I mean, when you feel drunk but you're not tipsy and having a good time. But then, you know, when you feel like you've gone over the edge and then you feel you notice that you drunk, you know, I don't want to be drunk anymore. Yeah. Yeah. Kind of like. That. And I think just want to overeat. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, okay. So you don't think this is to do with the whole sleep thing with the. I can't even say do in a ten oh oh. Okay. Well as well I'll mention it to everybody on the podcast. So I have all of the preliminary signs for sleep apnea. I have known this for years. I never do anything about it, mostly because like when you whenever you like receive sleep apnea, it's always like overweight, middle aged men that like the most common. Yeah, and I didn't for any of those, but now I have since like it's really, really common in ADHD. Yeah. You see actually I'm going yeah. Like I just turned out and. Yeah. Just staring at you. Yeah. Yeah. It's actually yeah. Yeah. There's a few studies that have shown it's actually a pretty common to say. So I morbidities. I know so many of them. I just gathering letters. So I've got my, I got my act together and I've spoke to a GP about it and now I've been referred to a respiratory doctor who I think specializes in sleep apnea, but I can't get an appointment for two months. So it's 23rd of January is my appointment and long time listeners of this podcast will know that is far too long for me. I know. I know to have been done yesterday. So Doctor, Google has once again come through for me. And and I learned. About something called mouth. Typing. So I just just to just to let you guys know. So a channel message from me last week and I was oh. How sick of desire to go and just sent me a message back saying oh just. You know, I've just kept my mouth shut. I know. She said to me, Oh, I'm not sure because I don't know if it's a cassata or if it's the fact that I've taken my mouth shots. And so. Well, I sent a message about basic. What? Watch what you mean take your mouth shut. And she goes, what it sounds. Like literally type in her mouth. And in that instance, I thought you meant you were talking to. She touched your mouth. But. No, no, she literally meant typing. Namaste. It's meant it's a night. So you get, like, some micro poor and you tape your mouth, shut your mouth falling open at night because mouth breathing affects your sleep. You don't go into this deep sleep and that this one study is very small. But there is one study that indicates. If you have mild sleep apnea, it can be beneficial. So I started taking my mouth shut at night. Literally type in a mouth shut literally, like you really need to put a photo on Instagram. Of you that because she sent. It to me and I was thinking it was just going to be like little, you know, like a small little thing that you. Can do that you can't do that. But then I actually. About she fights well I always expected it to be like but you know it's. I found a doctor who was talking about different methods of sleep of taping your mouth. And so he does this thing where he is like this, your nose all the way down to your chin and you just have like a little top on the end. So you can. Put it off quickly if you need to. So anyway, this is not because your mouth type, this is about Concerta. The point to this very long tangent is I started mouth typing, I think the second day that I was on Concerta, and it definitely has improved my sleep. So I used to get up like easily three times in a night to go for a way. And I'm I don't get at all now. I just wake up in the morning and I haven't we do night so it's definitely improving my sleep and so I kept saying I didn't think that the concert was doing anything and that it was the mouth type that was actually fixing all my life problems. And when was the last time you use the mouth type? That's not. I've not stopped using it. So we've got somewhere then. Yeah. Clearly if you did take the concert today. Yeah. And you were. Finally at the house. Yeah. Messing around. Yeah. You know, I mean. Yeah. Do you feel a bit empty today? Now, I've. Been busy today, so I don't usually feel empty when I've got like lots of stuff to do. When I was in a strange clinic with new people, so I probably wouldn't have felt empty anyway. Today the test will be like the weekends. Like it's it's mostly at home, I would say. Okay, when I've got time to think, when you've. Got time to see and. Yeah. Yeah. So, so far so it seems to be going relatively well. Yeah. I had a big epiphany really of the fact that you haven't felt empty for the time that you've been on the which I think is a massive thing. Yeah. So what about eating as you had any effect on your eating habits like because I know I once did so yeah. So with the albums it was a real appetite suppressant and I still ate, but I ate more because I knew I needed to. I didn't really have any emotional attachment to food. I could I would just think, it's lunchtime. I need to eat lunch. I wouldn't have thought that. Some of the things that you wanted to start the advance wasn't it. Because it because it stops the bingeing because. Yeah. Is actually a drug that is used for binge eating. Yes. As well. So I think it's actually one of the only ones I mean, a lot of this, but I think it's the top one. Oh, so yeah. So I think I think I remember you telling me as the economy. That definitely need something I. Cut you off. I was really good for that like junk food when I ate. It just didn't taste the same. Like, it didn't. I didn't get that, like, emotional. It's it's hard to explain it didn't physically taste different it's still like packet so maybe Chris still tasted like salt vinegar but I just didn't get the pleasure out of it that I would normally get from eating those just felt like anything else. So like I could eat an apple or I could eat a packet of crisps and like normally off the medication they would feel like two very different things to me. But on the medication they were all just food. Oh my God, that's absolutely incredible. That that was good. Yeah. Concerta is. A one. Concession is a bit different. So how I feel on Concerta is definitely in the morning. I struggle to eat. So I take the tablet and then I've got to eat some form of breakfast within half an hour, or I have to really sort of force it down once the tablets start to kick in a calm a can't take a big meal, but then throughout the day, yeah, maybe just press back a little bit like I probably got a bit more control. I have to eat regularly on it because it definitely seems to affect my blood sugar. So there's times that I'll go like ultra dizzy and spacey. And I found that if I just eat something like a couple of nuts, then I feel better. So I have to keep regularly snacking throughout the day, but it doesn't have to be junk food. I can easily eat healthy food. And did you feel like you wanted your food before? Before? Yeah. Oh, before. I definitely would have. If I felt upset or wobbly or whatever. I knew that only junk food would have comforted me. So that's better. But then with the advance, it didn't. The food aspect didn't really wear off. So from one day to the next, even when style fonts had worn off, I didn't particularly feel hungry. And the junk food stuff didn't come back. Whereas with Concerta it does. Definitely after

about 8:

00, I'm still awake, I'm ravenously hungry and all I want is junk food like okay. So really badly. For a while. That's strange. Yeah. Changed. So you don't have any throughout the day don't you. Still hungry. You've still got like like essentially blood sugar is not getting, you know, you're not ravenous for junk food, but then


00 at night, all of a sudden. Yeah. And I started eating. I've had to be really careful because I've started eating o junk food than I would have done. Off the medication. Hmm. Is it just the craving for is just so intense. Does that mean at that point, you need to take another one? Well, you have to wait to admit. Situation the next day. Yeah, but it might just be because I know that this dose is not right for me. And I've had my review now, and my psychiatrist is prescribing me the next dose up. It might be that when I'm on an appropriate dose for me, maybe it does last longer and it's okay. Yeah. Do you find. I know you've done the mouth typing thing. Which you love, which I actually like your favorite thing. Just the picture alone. That's just that image in my mind. I'll never forget it. But do you think. That it helps you sleep better? It like I know you can't really tell me because you're doing the my mouth type and thing, but I guess on some level you've got best sleep. Yeah. I mean, do you wake up early? I don't mind. It's making me more tired. I don't know if it's making me sleep better, but I'm sleeping a lot more than I would have slept here. And is it making you more focused when you are awake at. At times I do feel more focused. But I think, again, because the data isn't right for me, it's not a useful focus. So I just want to keep doing the same thing over and over again. Like really repetitive, really robotic. Like if I start doing something, I just want to keep doing that one thing over and over again. It's very difficult to shift between tasks, so I guess that is more focus. Yeah, that's not really that useful to me day to day. Right. So okay, so this is getting more and more every to every single time we talk about ADHD, we talk about medications and we go down the route of talking about them. And obviously you've tried them now and you've been trying like obviously they're our once in a cassata. There's seems to be so many more questions because now it's like so it works for focus. But what, what if you need to focus on lots of different things. Yeah. So I. Think. Do you think it'll ever work for that. As if for. As far as I understand the medication, it will never help direct your focus. You have to learn to do that yourself so it can make you help me focus on things. But with an ADHD brain, there's always going to be a propensity to focus on the wrong things and get drawn deeper into that rabbit hole. So you have to learn to be able to control your own focus. I don't know about switching between things and potentially if I, you know, do get onto a higher dose or a more stable dose, that might be a reason why I don't take it, because certainly at work I'm always doing multiple things at once. That's just the nature of my job and switching between task overthinking. Yeah. So, you know, if it makes that really difficult, then that might prevent me from taking it. But equally, I know there are people who only take it for work because it helps them so much. So maybe this is just not the right dose for me. Or maybe those people don't have jobs where it requires them to do lots of different things and they just want to focus on one thing. Maybe. To keep a particular quality to say that. But you know what I mean? Like, if you're just doing the same thing every day and you just can't, it's boring and you just want to get focused on doing it. Maybe that's that. Maybe that's why it works, you know? Yeah, I suppose like you said, you're going to try different doses and then we'll see which, which, which one actually works. And then maybe one day I'll be able to try as well because at the moment it feels like a little bit lockout. Less like I suppose. Yeah, I don't really know what else to ask. I think I've asked so many things about this, this medication. I we've probably. Covered the side effects. We talk about the side effects. I can't think of anything that I've missed out. I guess if you if anyone has any questions, then they can contact us. Yeah. I'm going to be going up to 27 milligrams probably. I would have thought after Christmas I call the post or strikes and stuff. Is perhaps too strong. There's lots of pace of strikes at the moment. How do you not know this? I don't know. I'm not I'm not in the world I'm on. And also, I probably won't change onto a new dose like just before Christmas. In case it really affects me, I don't want to be like a zombie for Christmas. I ordered something from Amazon and it came. So is that a passive shot? Sorry, I might just, you know, you. What were you saying? It's just off on a tangent. Well, you say then. I'm saying I almost certainly won't start my new dose until after Christmas. I see you're not going to show up for Christmas. Well, if I have a bad side effect, like I did with the advance and it makes me like a zombie. I don't want to be a zombie for Christmas. Yeah, I. Think I'd rather. Do something for Christmas. That should be a film. I know. I don't want to be a zombie Christmas. That's because it's. It's by the time it arrives, it's going to be, I would have thought, a second or third week of December anyway. So I don't think it's going to be long for me to wait. Like a week at most. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, that's true, I. I mean, look, I mean, I know you're not taking it today, but the simple fact that you've got a bit of patience. Yeah. Means that. Actually, maybe it's Duval or maybe where you. Stood in the background. I can't remember the last time I heard you say. Oh, I. You got to wait, like, an extra week. You know, I mean, that's I of. That's incredible. To me. Anyway, that's not a massive difference. When you go to an extra week. The fact is that the fact that you wait in an extra week. And what was it about? I'm saying that I'm waiting. Like we said before about the when I was waiting for it to arrive and I wasn't going to take it. It's not in my possession yet. It's all very well me intending to wait till after Christmas once it's in the house and I'm looking at it every day. So the real test. Yeah, the real being. Whether your impulsiveness. Yeah. Kicks in. And if it doesn't, then I'd say that's under the wing. Yeah, to be fair. Well, we'll keep you on a. Diet anyway, because I'm pretty sure that the next time we speak to Cheryl, she'll be telling us all about whether she could control an urge. Since I might just give it to Jamie to hide. Like, if you don't want Christmas ruined, so let me find this. It's when he's actually going to be arriving. I don't know for certain. I don't know. So it's like a little special. Yeah. See. I haven't even heard from. I only have my review yesterday. I haven't heard from the pharmacy yet, so I don't think the prescriptions even been registered or anything yet. So yeah, it'll be a if from when, from when I get the first notification that my psychiatrist has logged a prescription to arriving is about ten days. Normally. Yeah. It's a long time. So I. Mean, I can't do anything online is going to be longer than the next day. And I can't get excited about sex. It's so long away so it'll go. I can't get my hopes up again. It's so funny having tablets delivered and they do come. Like a Christmas present. We got a 38 hour 30 side over medication. Oh, I think we probably should leave it. There is. We're waffling. We are. Waffling now. So yeah, we're we're going to let you go, go, go, go. We're going to let you go. I know I say this again every single week. The thing that we're going to do at the end but mean I've not got anything sorted or planned. I tell you why you started this. When you when you first said it, I was thinking like you were the one that absolutely hated the little kick it why you reinstate. Yeah. And then every single week you're. Like, Oh, I haven't done anything for it. There's got to be something we can do. I like the. Concept of it. I just wish that you could take control of, oh, rising prices. Yes, we lose and bring the little thing. Every week and every weekend, every week. And then we'll all. Be fine right away. But there does need to be something, you know, not mean. I just think it nicely tops off the ending of an episode. But I just I literally cannot be bothered to pick up my phone and have a look right now because I'll just stop the flow and then I won't be able to talk and I'll just be all over the place. So I'm sorry, guys. This week there's nothing again. Anyway, next week, join us next week. Well, misery and disappointment for some more positivity. We'll see you next time. All right. That's everything this week, guys. But if you want to carry on with the conversation, join us over on our social media platforms or on all the major channels. And our handle is I do for Minky. We'd also be super grateful if you could leave us a review on the podcast, wherever you're listening, as it helps us to grow our audience and help more people. Okay, we'll see you in the next one. Bye bye. Bye.